ND Chris: Welcome to our program, our talk show today. Hello, Mike and Bree Dunn, right?
Bree Dunn: Yes.
ND Chris: Bree Dunn, hi, you say hello?
Michael Agruss: Yeah. Thanks for having us on I’m Michael Agurus. I’m the managing partner of Agurus Law Firm and we are here with Bree Dunn-
Bree Dunn: Hi.
Michael Agruss: … Who works with Melissa Anthill who used to work at my office. So this is awesome.
Bree Dunn: Great…
Michael Agruss: And you’re here to talk about Wills and trusts.
Bree Dunn: I Am. I’m excited to be here, thank you for having me.
ND Chris: You’re welcome.
Bree Dunn: I appreciate it.
ND Chris: Yeah. [foreign language]. First of all. Okay. We do appreciate your time and your patient. Welcome to our new community and our new clients. We try to catch up with whatever. Okay. You try to expand your expertise on the trust, right? Go ahead, Mike.
Michael Agruss: Sure. So we’re going to talk about state planning today, and if you want to let the viewers know what sort of services you offer when it comes to estate planning.
Bree Dunn: Yeah. And I’ll also start with, I’m honored and humbled to be here. So thank you so much for having us…
Michael Agruss: Yes.
Bree Dunn: We offer a variety of estate planning services, we help with the creation of wills, trusts, documents that establish a power of attorney and then other documents that tend to go with those things.
ND Chris: Alright, thank you. [foreign language]
Michael Agruss: Yes, thank You. Sure. So when we’re talking about estate planning, can you tell us a little bit about the difference between what estate planning is and what probate is? Because I feel we don’t do estate planning and I feel like people who aren’t involved in it maybe use those words interchangeably…
Bree Dunn: Yes.
Michael Agruss: … But if I remember correctly, estate planning is different than probate. And if you can just tell us what the difference is?
Bree Dunn: That’s correct. There are two different things. So estate planning is the process where an individual determines in advance how to direct their estate and by estate, I mean their possessions, their assets, their property, and so you determine in advance how you want that to be distributed, to whom you want that to be distributed, in the amounts that you want that to be distributed upon your death, probate is different than estate planning. Probate is the court process in which the court supervises the distribution of those things if you have a will or if you have no will at all.
Michael Agruss: Is it accurate… I think someone told me this and I hope it’s accurate. Is it accurate that if you properly do estate planning, you avoid as many issues as possible of probates? So in other words, it’s important to be proactive, right?
Bree Dunn: Correct. So proactive is the keyword here. There are many mechanisms that you can use in estate planning that allow you to avoid probate. Because again, probate is that court process, literally it is you are in court, the court is supervising how to distribute your assets, your property, essentially your estate. You can avoid that and we’re going to talk more about that if you use certain mechanism, or tools of the estate planning.
ND Chris: But yes. Okay. I tried to memorize everything you just said.
Bree Dunn: I’m so sorry.
Michael Agruss: No, we can go back. We’ll go back in-
Bree Dunn: Anything-
ND Chris: It’s just-
Bree Dunn: Unbelievable-
ND Chris: No, no, it’s all right. You know, whatever you just-
Bree Dunn: Genius.
ND Chris: … Mentioned is far interesting to me. You know, I think you, I got at least about, you know, 90%.
Michael Agruss: Yeah. ND, I think the key takeaway here is you hire an attorney, you hire someone like Bree, she helps you do your estate planning so you can avoid litigation or probate.
ND Chris: Yes. Okay. All right. [foreign language]. Thank you so much. I try to catch everything you say.
Michael Agruss: Yeah. Great job. Right? And ND, I wanted to… Right?
Bree Dunn: Amazing.
Michael Agruss: He’s awesome.
ND Chris: Thank you.
Bree Dunn: More languages. Amazing. That’s Impressive.
Michael Agruss: It is great, and ND I think we can make a comparison here to something like we’ve talked about in the past. Because when we’re on the show, Taylor and I are on the show, we were talking about personal injury. We talk a ton about auto insurance…
ND Chris: Right.
Michael Agruss: … And having the right car insurance and having enough insurance coverage protects you long term and the investment… What it costs to have proper car insurance is nominal compared to the protection in the future. And I think this is the exact same thing. So…
Bree Dunn: That’s Right.
Michael Agruss: Right. So for people watching the show, the viewers, it makes so much sense to talk to an estate lawyer and pay the nominal fees in the beginning for a will…
ND Chris: Right.
Michael Agruss: … A trust, power of attorney and all of those documents…
ND Chris: Right.
Michael Agruss: … Because it’s so much less expensive and such less of a headache to do it in the beginning properly…
Bree Dunn: Yes.
Michael Agruss: So you avoid everything down the line…
Bree Dunn: Yes.
Michael Agruss: …That comes with probate and expenses.
Bree Dunn: Yes.
Michael Agruss: … And litigation, and it’s just like the car insurance thing…
ND Chris: Right.
Michael Agruss: … Do the right thing in the beginning, you’re protecting…
ND Chris: Right.
Michael Agruss: … The future…
ND Chris: Yes.
Michael Agruss: Speak with an estate attorney in the beginning and you won’t have headaches in the future.
ND Chris: Yeah. [foreign language] look like [foreign language] same thing. Yes, thank you so much for your… Okay… Explanation, very… In depth about the issue and then also, okay the will and trust. My question is… I know we have a lot of question here, okay. But when you mentioned about will, trust and power, actually, what is the different?
Bree Dunn: Sure.
ND Chris: When do you need the power attorney?
Bree Dunn: Yes, so just to separate those things, so a will, a trust and a power of attorney are all different mechanisms, a part of state planning.
ND Chris: Okay.
Bree Dunn: Let’s start with the power of attorney actually, because it’s a little bit different than the others. So power of attorney is going to… It’s a legal document that is going to give an agent, someone that you assign in advance, the ability to manage, whether it’s your healthcare decisions or your finance and property decisions in a situation where you are no longer able to do that, where you are essentially incapacitated. It’s an really important document…
ND Chris: Yes.
Bree Dunn: … And the reason is if you don’t do that at, and you are in a situation, let’s say you’re in the hospital and you don’t have something like that in place. They can’t just simply ask all your loved ones and say, what should we do?
Your loved ones, won’t have the ability to do that. So at least not upfront without that document, they may have to go to court for a hearing. It can be a process. So again, it, you can in advance, set up that document and you put in whom you want to be that agent. And then you can have a successor. If that agent is not available, they can then take that on right then in the moment. And you avoid the headache and complications in often what is a very devastating time or tricky time to move smoothly through it.
ND Chris: Okay.
Bree Dunn: So that’s a power of attorney.
ND Chris: Yes.
Bree Dunn: Do you want me to pause there? And…
ND Chris: Oh, it’s alright. Okay. [foreign language] power attorney [foreign language] Power attorney [foreign language] power attorney [foreign language] everything [foreign language] power attorney [foreign language]. Yes. Please follow.
Bree Dunn: Yes.
ND Chris: The Next one.
Bree Dunn: So then, the other two documents that we talked about are two… I should say tools…
ND Chris: Yeah.
Bree Dunn: …Are going to be wills and trusts.
ND Chris: Yes.
Bree Dunn: So I’ll start with wills and then I’ll give you some time…
ND Chris: Sure.
Bree Dunn: … And then we’ll do trust. So a will is a legal document and an instrument that allows an individual to give direction to their estate and by an estate, I mean their possessions, their property, their assets, and these directions come… Become effective upon death. This tool allows them to not only leave them to whom they want to leave them, but in the amounts that they want to leave them at the time they would like to do that. And they can also establish somebody who is going to manage the oversight of that process.
ND Chris: Yes.
Bree Dunn: So that’s sort of the overview of a will, But you should know about a will. That’s important that sometimes really gets confused by lots of folks is that a will does go to probate. So we talked about probate earlier.
ND Chris: Yes.
Bree Dunn: … Again, it’s that court process where they oversee the supervision of the distribution. Okay. A will does go to probates. That’s an important point to know.
ND Chris: Okay.
Bree Dunn: It’s not the end all be all what I mean by that it’s not disastrous, but it is an important thing to consider. Okay.
ND Chris: Okay.
Bree Dunn: I can pause there [crosstalk].
ND Chris: Yeah. Okay. All right, thanks. [foreign language] Will, trust, power attorney [foreign language] go to [foreign language] probate [foreign language] Probate [foreign language] will. Yes, please go on.
Bree Dunn: So then the last tool we’re talking about is a trust. A trust is similar as a tool to a will in that it does give the direction of the estate. However it avoids probate. That’s the big key about a trust. That’s really important. Trust tend to be a little bit more expensive and they’re a little bit more complex upfront, but it avoids the process of probate. So essentially it avoids, it avoids that court process.
ND Chris: Yes.
Bree Dunn: And the way it does that is, that trust is a bit of a different mechanism. Okay. It is essentially going to own your assets, your property, your possessions. And so while you eventually, when you die, right. That trust does not die. It continues.
ND Chris: Okay.
Bree Dunn: Okay. And so it avoids probate,
ND Chris: Right, yes.
Bree Dunn: Similarly, when you die, then the instructions kick in for the trustee who will then honor your instructions as you’ve laid them out. But the big, I think the big takeaway and important piece is that the trust is the mechanism that avoids probate.
ND Chris: Okay. All right. Thank you. [foreign language] will [foreign language] trust [foreign language] real estate [foreign language]probate [foreign language] will [foreign language]. Yes.
Bree Dunn: Could I throw one more point out there?
ND Chris: Sure.
Bree Dunn: So one important piece about probate, I think what’s important to know about probate is… Okay, ‘what happens if my estate goes into probate?’, it’s just what you need to know is it can be timely. Right? It’s just like going to, it’s a court process. There’s a judge.
ND Chris: Right.
Bree Dunn: … And then it can be costly. You have court fees, you have to pay attorney fees. So that’s really what we’re talking about here. It doesn’t have to be something that you fear entirely, but it is something you can avoid if you plan appropriately. So that’s, that’s sort of the point here.
ND Chris: Yes. Okay. [foreign language] trust [foreign language] plan ahead [foreign language] avoiding. Yes, just go ahead.
Michael Agruss: Sure, so the next question I think most viewers would want to know this is, at what age or circumstance do people need to speak with an estate lawyer? And I can give you an example for me, and I don’t know if I was too late for the game, but… I’ve got two kids, my son is seven and a half, my daughter’s five today.
Bree Dunn: Oh, today…
Michael Agruss: Today.
Bree Dunn: Happy Birthday day.
ND Chris: All right.
Michael Agruss: Going from here, we’re going to go out and celebrate. But anyway,
Bree Dunn: That’s awesome.
Michael Agruss: Yeah. So for me, it was when my wife was pregnant with my son Brody, I knew at that point I needed life insurance and I also needed an estate plan. So for the viewers who are watching, what age?, what circumstance should someone think to themselves?, ‘you know what?’, ‘I need to speak to an estate lawyer’.
Bree Dunn: Sure. So there’s no set age on when you should speak each with a state lawyer.
ND Chris: Right?
Bree Dunn: It’s more about life circumstances and let me just preface, it’s never too late. Right? Sometimes people say I’m so embarrassed. Why don’t I have this in order that it’s never too late. It’s okay.
ND Chris: Right.
Bree Dunn: This is a smart tool and a great opportunity to empower your family or yourself, it’s never too late. There are life circumstances though, that kick in that I think indicate, okay, we should take a pause and really you should consider consulting an estate attorney. And just like Mike said, one of them is children, but we could even back up from there. You don’t have to have kids to have an estate plan. You know, do you have one? Do you have property? Whether you’ve purchased it yourself, have you come into property, perhaps it was passed down from a family member.
What do you own? I mean, I think taking a look at what you have, if you have some thoughts on the direction of where you want that to go.
ND Chris: Right.
Bree Dunn: That’s a good pause.
ND Chris: Yes.
Bree Dunn: … Right? If you’re married, children, those are also instances where you might want to… Those are great times to consider consulting in a state attorney as if you move. And if you acquire more, whether it’s property or assets, sometimes people with jobs, they might get stock or investment accounts. All those things are great times. If you haven’t, you, those are good times to consider. And certainly, really think about it. I would say you should…
ND Chris: Right.
Bree Dunn: … And, and also those are also good times to update if you have one.
ND Chris: Okay. All right. Thanks. [foreign language] okay each[foreign language] Bree Dunn [foreign language] property [foreign language] marriage [foreign language] property [foreign language]. Please. That question.
Michael Agruss: Sure. We discussed a little bit about the difference between a will and a trust and I think our viewers understand that. My question for you is, is there a certain circumstance where you would recommend to someone, I think based on your age and circumstance, a will is a pro grant or vice versa, based on what you have going on, I think it makes more sense for a trust? And for me, I can tell you when I was going through this, when we had kids, when we first had Brody, I had my law firm, I wanted to get life insurance for my son. I wanted to make sure that if i passed away that life insurance was protected, and I had law school debt, there was business debt. You know, there was a lot of moving parts and for me it was a no-brainer to get a trust.
Bree Dunn: Yes.
Michael Agruss: … And everyone I talked to since then, I’m like a hundred percent do that. But…
Bree Dunn: Yes.
Michael Agruss: … Anyway, are there certain times where just a will is an appropriate tool compared to a trust?
Bree Dunn: So, yes. These are all tools that you can use and should use. So I guess my starting point is you should have something, you don’t want to leave it to the court to distribute what you have worked so hard for your whole life to let you buy Illinois law. You want to give direction of that. So you should have something we’ll start there. Age doesn’t matter, but if you perhaps either aren’t married or don’t have children, or perhaps you don’t… I think sort of on the one end of the spectrum, if you’re newer to this a will is a great way to go. And it gives you direction on the things that you have. So your estate, which again, includes your property, your possessions or assets. You can give direction to that to whom you want when you want, that can be a great way to go.
I would again say, I think that’s more towards the end of the spectrum. That’s sort of either at the beginning, if you’re just acquiring some things or perhaps you don’t have a whole lot of direction for that. A good example of this is somebody that it, perhaps they have a property and they want to put it in a will they have a 401k or…
ND Chris: Right.
Bree Dunn: A retirement account, but that has a beneficiary already, so that won’t go to probate. But if they just have maybe one or two things, like just a few things they want to give direction to you, a will, might be the appropriate instrument. It’s certainly simple. And you can have that and have your direction towards your estate. However, as you, I’d say, go on in life, if you have children or even, beyond having children and having perhaps a spouse or a partner, but as you acquire more things, property, perhaps businesses, other assets, maybe even you’ve come into, you’ve inherited from some place, essentially the reason why a trust might be better.
There is you do not want those things to go to probate. You’re planning backwards. Right? So in the beginning, if you’re young and you’re not concerned about things…
ND Chris: Right.
Bree Dunn: A will is a great way to go. You’re not necessarily considering that a will is going to go into effect tomorrow.
ND Chris: Right.
Bree Dunn: Eventually though, I think the way to plan backwards is to have a trust. I think if you can avoid probate, is the end all goal.
ND Chris: Yeah. Okay. Thanks. [foreign language] Will [foreign language] Will [foreign language] You don’t want to go to the court [foreign language] Planning [foreign language] Planning [foreign language] Probate [foreign language] Thank you so much. Okay.
Michael Agruss: Sure.
ND Chris: What was next question?
Michael Agruss: Sure. Bree, something we haven’t talked about as far as trust go, that I think a lot of the viewers fall into this category where people watching the show are small business owners.
ND Chris: Yes.
Michael Agruss: Whether it’s nail salons, restaurants, and what comes with owning a small business. I know this first hand is debt. Right? And so, one of the things that I set up for myself that was really important to me, for my trust, for my life insurance. Is it dumps into a trust.
Bree Dunn: Yeah.
Michael Agruss: Because between debt that I have for, from law school.
Bree Dunn: Sure.
Michael Agruss: And then, business that I wanted to make sure that my kids and my wife are protected.
Bree Dunn: Sure.
Michael Agruss: So can you talk briefly about the benefits of once again, having a trust for people who are watching, who are small business owners, who maybe have some debt in their business.
Bree Dunn: Sure.
Michael Agruss: Or people who went to college and have debt, and they’re trying to protect their family and using a trust as a mechanism to do that.
Bree Dunn: Yeah. So we talked about trust earlier, and it is a mechanism that essentially lives beyond you, right? It’s a mechanism in which you can put your assets, you can put your business… you can put all kinds of things in our trust. And so, and you give instructions in that trust as to how you want those things distributed, as to when. Okay. But what’s nice about that is, and what’s different between that and a will, is it will continue after you pass, whereas a will, when you pass will goes into effect. And in fact, as we stated.
Michael Agruss: Yes.
Bree Dunn: A will is going to go to probate and that’s when the creditors are going to come and see what is left of your estate, and they do have a piece of that. The trust continues on and goes along with your instructions. And so it is a great mechanism to protect your family and others from having to essentially take on those things firsthand.
A trust is also a great way to not only avoid probate, but to just set up a way to protect each of the people, a part of your trust from having to deal with those things in probate. And so again, if you’re a small business owner, if you have debt or even multiple assets, you… the goal is to avoid probate. Okay. It doesn’t… I’m not trying to make it seem like an evil thing, but it’s costly. It takes a lot of time. Because sometimes people get very concerned. Like why would I even do a will?
Michael Agruss: Right.
Bree Dunn: It’s okay to do a will. But if you are carrying these things with you want to set up a trust. A trust is the ultimate protection for those a part of… And for your assets. And so that is the way to go.
Michael Agruss: Yes.
Bree Dunn: I’m a small business owner as well. So I’m right there with you. That is the route you would want to take.
Michael Agruss: Yes.
ND Chris: Okay. Thanks. [foreign language] My small business [foreign language] Small business [foreign language] Mechanism [foreign language] Mechanism [foreign language] Trust [foreign language] Go to the court [foreign language] Probate [foreign language] Trust [foreign language] okay. Trust [foreign language] Understand [foreign language] Will trust [foreign language] Law [foreign language] Okay. Thank you so much. And the time is up. We had to say goodbye.
Bree Dunn: I’m so sorry.
Michael Agruss: No, it’s fine.
ND Chris: So fast.
Michael Agruss: Time always goes fast on the show. ND, before we end, I wanted to ask Bree, I’m sure all the viewers are interested.
ND Chris: Sure.
Michael Agruss: What’s this going to cost me? So if you can let the viewers know free yes. One about an initial consultation.
Bree Dunn: Sure.
Michael Agruss: With your firm and then two, if you have set fees for certain things. And once again, I know when it comes to a trust, there’s probably some factors that go into what it’s going to cost. But as far as a consultation, power of attorney will, if someone wants to do this and they should do this,
Bree Dunn: Yes.
Michael Agruss: What are they looking at?
Bree Dunn: Yes. So we do have flat fees. There’s ranges for those because it depends on what you have. So if you have multiple properties, if you multiple like a situation that’s a little bit more complex, you’d be at the higher end of the range, which I’ll give, if it’s a simple… just one property, those kinds of things factor our range. But we do have a consultation of 150. And what that does is it will be applied to whatever it is that you end up… whatever tool you, so a will or a trust or a power of attorney. Our power of attorney is 350. The will is a range of 800 to a thousand. And that includes the power of attorney and all the documents that go with it. So, not to be wordy here, but there’s several power of attorney documents within there. There’s a HIPAA authorization that allows your medical information to be shared, things like that.
ND Chris: Right.
Bree Dunn: And then a trust, the range is 27.50 and it goes up to 5000. Usually doesn’t get there, but that’s in a situation where you have a very complex estate.
ND Chris: Right. Okay.
Michael Agruss: ND, for the viewers, I think what’s important about services that Brie offers is the initial consultation being $150. And if you retain their office that just gets credited towards.
ND Chris: Right.
Michael Agruss: Whatever service is needed.
Bree Dunn: Always. And the reason that is because usually we take a half hour to an hour to go through and see what tool is going to work best for them.
ND Chris: Yes. Okay. Of course. Let me make sure. Okay. You mentioned about a power of attorney, that’s a dollar.
Bree Dunn: Nope. Sorry. Power of attorney alone is 350.
ND Chris: 350.
Bree Dunn: Sorry about that.
ND Chris: Okay. All right. 350 and trust is 750?
Bree Dunn: Trust is 2750 to 5000. That’s going to be the highest one.
ND Chris: Okay.
Bree Dunn: And a will is 800 to a thousand.
ND Chris: Okay.
Bree Dunn: And just… they include several documents and I’m happy to go like a durable power of attorney, a healthcare power of attorney. It just kind of, the range depends on how much they have. Okay. And what needs to be added to it.
ND Chris: Okay.
Michael Agruss: But what’s important here ND is these are generally within the range. They’re flat fees. Right. And so people know what they’re getting themselves in to. There’s not any surprises.
ND Chris: Right.
Bree Dunn: Okay.
ND Chris: [foreign language] service fee [foreign language] consultation [foreign language] trust [foreign language] power of attorney [foreign language] power of attorney [foreign language] 350 [foreign language] trust [foreign language] multiple properties [foreign language] okay [foreign language] service [foreign language] power of attorney [foreign language] Yes. Thank you so much. Thank you for…
Bree Dunn: You. Thank you. Good job. Impressive. That was amazing. My gosh. Yes. Thank you
ND Chris: Okay. Before we say goodbye. Okay. Anything that you want to add? Just go ahead.
Michael Agruss: Sure. So brief, thanks for coming on the show. I think it’s great that you were here to talk about Wills, Trust, power of attorney, estate planning and we look forward to having you come on again in a few weeks. This was super informative and.
ND Chris: Yes.
Michael Agruss: Thanks again. Thank
Bree Dunn: You for having me. Appreciate it.
ND Chris: It. Thanks so much before [foreign language] more than 10 year [foreign language]
