Real Estate 101 with Melissa Tannehill: Agruss Law Firm Video Podcast S1 E1

Welcome to the Agruss Law Firm video podcast. We are a different kind of law firm and that's on purpose. At Agruss Law Firm we see you as a person and not just a client, and that makes us better at what we do. We're not just lawyers and you're not just a client. We're friends, neighbors and family. This show is about all things legalish that friends, neighbors, and family want to know. This is season one, episode one, and today we're talking real estate.

Today's guest is Melissa Tannehill, the owner of Tannehill Law. Tannehill Law represents buyers, sellers, and investors in the purchase and sale of residential and commercial property. Melissa, how are you doing?

I'm doing great. Thanks for having me, Mike.

Of course. When I thought about doing this video podcast, you were the first person who I thought I would have on as a guest.

Thanks, I'm honored.

You were here as a law clerk. You are here as a lawyer and then when you left me, I felt like I failed you.

Obviously not. No.

I always knew that you would have your own law firm. I'm glad that you-

Thanks.

I'm glad that you started it. It's been almost a year now.

It has been almost a year.

Great. So tell me a little bit about Tannehill Law.

Sure. I am basically representing clients buying and selling residential and commercial property. So that goes from anywhere from clients just buying their first home or selling their first home, clients downsizing because they are getting older, kids have left the nest or up-sizing because they're starting a new family. And then I also have a base of clients that are primarily investors, who basically just buy and sell, either flip the home or rent to tenants and just keep the property. And then I help those clients specifically with the needs of creating their LLC, their partnership agreements, so on and so forth. So it's a vast range, but primarily, I am focusing on residential and commercial real estate.

Okay. And when I was thinking about this podcast, I was thinking that this would be a Real Estate 101 type of podcast. So tell me when is someone ready to buy a place?

I would say someone's ready to buy a place when they are committed to a location, when they've been in an area and they can see themselves in that area for long-term. If they're planning on living in this property, they want to basically know that it's convenient to get to work and that they can handle the payment. So they want to save for the down payment, know what the market's like to make sure that their mortgage payment, taxes, and insurance is comparable to what they're comfortable paying now, or if they can afford a little bit more as far as how much more that is.

And when someone makes that decision that now is the right time to buy, what do you recommend doing first? Do you want to find a place first or do you want to get a loan first? What's the next step?

So the number one recommendation I would have is speak to the mortgage broker or bank to get your prequalification. And then basically, the prequalification is going to tell you based off of your income, your savings, how much you're going to be qualified for that loan. That way you have that and you can keep that in mind when you start searching, so that when you start searching, you're not searching for something way far out of your price range that in fact you're going to fall in love with, and then end up not being able to purchase in the long run. So it's a good idea to get prequalified first.

And when you get prequalified, what happens? Does your lender give you a letter saying, "Hey you have half a million dollars to spend." How does it work?

Yes. So typically the lender will do a credit check. They'll ask for your annual income, and then they'll also ask for any assets that you might have. So they'll ask for estimated amount in bank savings, retirement, et cetera. And at that point, they will run the numbers, generate a letter for you, and that letter you can present to potential sellers when you're actually putting the offer in. So to make a very strong offer, I would recommend putting in the offer and including the prequalification lender letter to show that seller that you're actually qualified to purchase a home.

Got it. Is the prequalification letter necessary? In other words, do you need to have it when you're going to put an offer in on a place?

You don't necessarily need to have it, but it's highly recommended. And then that's basically the first place that you start. Of course if you're buying cash, you don't need any.

Fair enough. When you get the prequalification letter and the amount is $500000, $750000, $1 million, what do you tell buyers as far as how much should they spend? So just because you're prequalified for $1 million, do you just want to look at places for $1 million? Or how do you advise clients when they ask you, "I'm prequalified for X, how much should I spend?"

So I feel like home ownership is a really great thing. It's also a big responsibility too. So you want to be spending how much you're comfortable with. So if you're prequalified for half a million dollars, but realistically that payment is much further out of your reach than what you're let's say paying for rent is right now, I would say stick to a payment that you're comfortable in. And to compute the payment, you want to have the principal and interest along with the taxes and homeowner's insurance as well too.

So then along those lines, just because you're prequalified for a half million dollar mortgage, like for example, a half million dollar mortgage with today's interest rates would be about how much per month?

I would say probably somewhere... That's going to depend on the taxes and insurance too because in Cook County they're pretty high. So you want to take that into the big consideration. But I would say somewhere all in for half a million... It's hard to say.

And I guess this is the point that I'm getting at is because, I remember when I was first looking for a house, you were actually working here, and I remember I picked your brain extensively and got free advice which I love. I guess you were on my payroll.

You're welcome.

Yeah, totally. I remember interest rates were super low. I think I locked in at about 3.25% on a 30 year fix. But the mortgage payment is just one thing. You've got the mortgage payment and then you've got taxes, and then you've got insurance, and a million other things that come along with it.

Correct.

When I come to work, I see billboards about interest rates are 3.5%. If you have a half million dollar loan, you're only going to spend X amount of dollars per month. And I think what was tricky for me, which maybe is tricky for your clients is, your mortgage payment is one thing. But then you've also got to take into consideration your taxes, your insurance, and a million other things that come along.

Right and so that's why it's also important to know the area that you're looking in, so if you're specifically just looking in one suburb, taxes for that set amount of property or that set amount house is going to be pretty comparable across the board. So you just want to know if your taxes, if in general, if they're going to be $1000 a month or are they going to be maybe $500 a month and then insurance also has a play in it too.

And that leads me to my next question, which is I would imagine at least for first time buyers who come to you, they're mostly renting and they're spending X amount of dollars per month in rent. And when they're trying to calculate these numbers of their down payment, their mortgage payment, their taxes, their insurance compared to what they're paying in rent, what do you see as the pros and cons versus renting and owning?

So I would say renting is a lot less maintenance, right? If something breaks, your first call is probably going to be your landlord to come in and fix that. Owning, I would recommend always having an amount on reserve just in case you need to actually have some maintenance done on your home, whether it's a water heater goes out or something happens and you have a leak in the roof. So any of those things are then now your responsibility. And at that point, it's important that you have the funds available to go ahead and fix that because there is no one else to call.

So the pros I would say of renting would probably be, it's a little bit less maintenance. The cons are you're not making a payment towards your own home. So a lot of times you can't make the fixes, paint the walls the same color that you want, and then you're also not making a payment towards a home that is yours to own forever.

The pros of owning, I would say are probably that home ownership is probably the one of the best ways to build wealth. So the majority of people's wealth is held within their home. So the average American, majority of their wealth is held within their homes. So they build equity over time by making payments towards that loan that reduces their loan amount and builds equity in their own homes. So when they go to sell it, they have equity left or they can refinance at times to pull that equity out and so on and so forth.

Got it. And while we're talking about monthly expenses, mortgage, taxes, insurance, when people come to you, I'm sure they ask you, "How much do I put down?" How do you answer that question? And is that question different depending on buying a condo, buying a house, if the properties a half million dollars, is it $1 million? It it their primary residence. Is it an investment property? How do you answer that question of, "How much money should I put down?"

So I really think it would depend on what their financial situation is and what their financial picture looks like. If they have quite a bit money or they're receiving a gift to put as a down payment, that always makes it a little bit easier. If it is a situation where they're still building and maybe they're younger and they're just looking to get into the first place because they're renting, there's options anywhere from 3.5% to 20% or more down, depending on what that buyer's financial situation actually looks like.

And while we're talking about money down mortgages, monthly expenses, can you tell me a little bit about the different types of loans that people can take out?

Sure. So FHA loans are loans that require a fairly reasonable down payment. Typically the minimum down payment on an FHA loan is a 3.5%. FHA loans will also allow for borrowers who maybe don't have excellent credit, but it's good credit, they'll allow for borrowers to use an FHA loan as a vehicle for their mortgage. And then conventional loans, typically you can, if it's your primary residence, you can put anywhere from 5-20% down. And then there's always jumbo loans as well, too. And a jumbo loan basically is if the loan amount exceeds a certain amount... So you're looking at bigger loans in this situation, these jumbo loans will be for that buyer who's maybe interested in buying something that's more expensive and exceeds the loan limits of the FHA and conventional loan guidelines.

Let's talk about buying and selling.

Okay.

You do both, right?

Correct. So I'll represent clients who are buying and clients that are selling and sometimes they do it simultaneously. So they're selling one property to go ahead and buy a bigger home or vice versa.

Is your practice about 50% buying and selling?

Yeah, I would say a good majority ends up being an equal amount of buys and sells.

What would you say are the three biggest mistakes that sellers make when they're trying to sell a property?

So I think that sellers... One of the biggest things that I see is just the timeframe. And sellers tend to get anxious to sell their their homes. So if it's sitting on the market for three months, sometimes they get a little bit anxious to sell and move because maybe they found a property or this home is holding them back from moving and finding the property of their dreams that they may have seen and already had pass.

So they get a little anxious and then maybe will take a lower offer than what the home is is actually worth. Or the other situation I see a lot, too, is when sellers own their home, but they haven't really done a lot of maintenance. And so buyers, on the other hand, will have an inspection completed and the inspection, their issues will come up and then the seller will hold back on providing credits or fixing any issues just out of principle, which sometimes ends up killing a deal.

Okay. And what are some common mistakes that buyers make?

I would say buyers, a lot of times they maybe don't get prequalified first. So they're looking at things that are out of their price range and then in that same term, they're just not doing their research as far as area and narrowing down. They just kind of start with a broad area of, "Oh, I want to live in Chicago." Well, Chicago has so many different pockets and so many different areas and taxes in each of those different areas ends up being a very different range. So just doing research. I feel like the more research you do as a buyer will only give you more advantage.

Okay. And while we're talking about living in Chicago, I remember my wife and I, Dara, were having this conversation where we were trying to figure out do we want to buy a condo and live in the city or do we want to wait, which we ultimately did, and just buy a house and move to the burbs. What are the pros and cons of owning a condo versus owning a house? In other words, you hear people talk about monthly assessments and monthly assessments are oftentimes expensive and people will complain about it, but they also cover things like water and garbage and other things. When you're in the burbs, you're getting separate bills for that. So what would you say are pros and cons of condo life versus owning a single family home?

Sure. So it's January and it was snowing out today. So one of the pros of living in a condo is a lot of times there will be maintenance that'll be covered within your monthly assessment, right? So if it snows, they'll hire someone to come and pick that up. Trash is included. Sometimes, if it's a bigger building, there's additional amenities like a gym, a pool. However, that may be of course that then reflects in the homeowners association dues. And the homeowners association dues will cover the expenses to pay for all of these additional amenities and conveniences that you would actually have to cover on your own owning a home.

So some of the pros of owning a condo, I would say it's less maintenance because that's usually included within the homeowners association. And then it's also... The building itself will usually be covered by the homeowners association and then you can't necessarily make repairs. So the homeowners association also then kind of ends up having the con of the same route as having more control over the building itself. And then the unit owners... And you're usually stacked right on top of each other. So if you're maybe someone with a growing family or have a dog and you need a backyard, it might be better to take a look at other options and look the route of owning your own home with a backyard and some space.

So the pros of that would be you can always add onto a house, right, where you wouldn't be able to do that in a condo. You could make changes to the house if you needed to for a growing family and let's say. Or on the con of that I'd say you'd end up having to cover for maintenance and expenses where the homeowners association would actually cover.

Got it. If you're a first time buyer, you're ready to start looking for a place, you need to get a real estate agent, right? And you also need to get a mortgage broker, right?

Typically, I mean you don't necessarily always have to have a real estate agent. You can do a for sale by owner. Personally, I would recommend a real estate agent, especially if you're a first time buyer because they're the one that's going to be able to guide you in the right direction, give you additional information that you may not be able to obtain on your own, show you properties, and then also explain the different options of the listing. So go through taxes, estimated payments, so on and so forth, which will then in turn reflect on how you put in the offer. They're also the ones doing the negotiating back and forth with the buyers and sellers. So they're basically representing you in the submitting the offer. So they'll do the initial negotiation of coming up to a fair price between the buyer and the seller.

How do you recommend finding a real estate agent and/or a mortgage broker? I feel like real estate agents and mortgage brokers are much like lawyers, a dime a dozen.

They're everywhere? Yes.

So just like we are always trying to stand out from the other billion lawyers in Chicago and Illinois and across the country, what advice do you have for people who are trying to find a real estate agent and/or trying to find a mortgage broker? Where do they find it?

Sure. So a lot of agents in particular will... There's plenty of people that are licensed, but it's important to find someone who maybe does this as their full-time job and who is active and who knows the area and who you get along with as well too. Because you've got to remember this is also going to be a process that's maybe going to take three to six months on the long end for you to actually go see the properties. It has to be someone you're comfortable with. You can say, "No, I really didn't like that and here's why and this is what I'm actually looking for," and then have them retain that information to go out and actually find something that you're looking for and help you along through that way.

So I would say just find someone that you trust. Same thing with a mortgage broker. Different banks and different lenders offer different options, too. So my biggest suggestion with that is rock stars, no rock stars. So if you find a real estate agent who is awesome, they probably have a very good referral source.

I like that. Rock stars, no rock stars. Interesting. One thing I learned when we bought our first place, I was referred a mortgage broker and I quickly learned that mortgage brokers only have relationships with certain banks or certain lenders. Is that still true? Is it always true? In other words, if you go to a broker, they may only have access to a handful of lenders.

For the most part, that's somewhat true. It's a case-by-case basis. So sometimes they have access to more banks or lenders than others. If you go into your local bank, that mortgage loan officer is only going to really have access to that bank's underwriting guidelines and what that bank has to offer. So working with a broker would be helpful in the fact that you might have some additional options than just, let's say walking into the local bank branch that you bank at because they'll have an array of different banks that they work with.

Got it. And I remember when you were working here and I was going through the home buying process, this is one of the big things that you helped me out with. Where the mortgage broker, I had only had certain relationships at certain banks and those banks happen to be conservative with down payments and what they wanted. And then on top of it, their interest rates weren't as competitive as at least what I saw on the billboards.

And I remember you gave me some really good advice and you said, "Who do you bank with for the business? For the firm." I contacted them and you also said, "Who do you do your personal banking with?" And I also contacted them and as it turns out I went with PNC Bank, which is who I do all my business banking with. And for them, it was easy because they already had all my business information, and then on top of it they provided me the most competitive rate. So that was a big learning lesson for me when you were here, where in addition to my broker shopping around, you would also said, "Hey, reach out to your personal bank, your business bank and ask around and see what they can do."

Absolutely. Because if you have an established relationship with them, they're likely going to provide you with different benefits than if you weren't going to have that relationship with them.

Let's talk about having a lawyer involved at the closing, inspections, those things. Let's first start with lawyers. Do you always recommend having a lawyer help either a buyer or seller at a closing? What do the lawyers do?

Yes. So I would highly recommend having an attorney that would just review everything. So that's where I come in. And at that point I basically come in, typically when the buyer or seller is under contract. So once they have an active contract and they have a buyer or seller on the other side willing to either sell or buy their home. So at that point, I come in. I'll review the contract. On the buyer's side, the process typically goes, we'll get the contract and there's five business days. So it ends up being a week for attorney review period and during attorney review period, I'll review the contract. I will make any necessary changes that I see fit for that contract. So if there is a provision in the contract that maybe we need to eliminate or add in, I can go ahead and do that. If there's specifics as far as you know, the proration on taxes, I'll negotiate that.

The biggest thing for the buy side is getting that inspection. So the during of the attorney review period, the buyers will have the opportunity to get an inspection. During the inspection, the inspector will go out there and he'll look at things that are basically not available to the naked eye. So it'll be, let's say there was mold and it wasn't noticed during the showing or the age of the water heater or whatever it may be. So he or she will come up with a list of items that they see could be red flags or could be hazardous.

And then at that point, I'll usually review that with the buyers and we'll say, "Is this something that you're now aware of and you still want to proceed?" And as long as they still want to proceed, we can also negotiate. Maybe we want that fixed. So if there is mold, they need to fix the mold before we move in. Or we need a credit so that we can go ahead and actually fix that portion of the house. Or if there's a broken window, we need a credit for that window. Or we need them to fix the window before and we move in.

And what stage of the process is that? So let's say you're representing a buyer. They found a place, they put an offer in, they put a down payment, it's accepted. And then what goes on between the time of you're under contract until you close. What's that period? Is that escrow?

No, that's typically just the period from being under contract. So that's called being under contract and you're contingent on the property is contingent at this point. Contingent to that contract moving forward essentially. So during that period, we have the attorney review, which is the Inspection that I just reviewed. And then that's also the opportunity where you're securing your loan. So you're going back and forth with your lender providing any additional documentation that they might need to give you the okay to say, "Okay, now we're clear to close and we have everything, it's all finalized. We're going to lend you this money."

And then at that point, once we get the clear to close, the attorneys will... And typically that that process will take probably about 30 days for your lender to complete all those steps. And then after we received the clear to close, the attorneys will come together and get the closing date and attend closing. So once we attend to closing, we'll review all the documents on the buyer's side. We review all of the loan documents. We review all of the seller's documents just to make sure everything's correct. And then we close at a title company typically.

And why does the end and the closing take place at a title company?

Sure. So basically, the title company conducts all of the payments being made. So all funds from the bank will get wired to the title company and then they will get wired to the seller. So the title company is distributing all the different ways of payment. And then they also offer what's called title insurance. And basically that's insurance paid by the seller so that any claims that may have come up during the seller's time of ownership will be titled or will be covered. So there's different fees associated with the title company, but they're necessary factors but specifically in Illinois.

Got it. When Dara and I bought our first place, we were lucky in the sense that we were renting in the city. We could get out of our lease relatively easily. We found a spot where we wanted to move and once we had an idea of where we wanted to move, we sort of just sat back, waited for the best opportunity for us, and then we moved forward. It was a relatively smooth process. I got the prequalification letter. We had a real estate agent, a mortgage broker, and everything was pretty smooth. And then all of a sudden about two weeks before we closed, it seemed like that entire time leading up to that, no one was really doing anything. And then my mortgage broker was scrambling trying to get me information and we need this for the title company and the real estate. And I was wondering to myself like what's been going on for the past couple of months?

So what's your advice for people? And I've talked to other people who've bought places and it seems like there's a lot of last minute scrambling about we need this type of financial information or we need a bank statement for the last 90 days or something like that. And I remember thinking to myself, well, why didn't you ask me this 30 days ago? And so do you have any advice on how to make that... For me, that was the most stressful part of the purchasing process was the last couple of weeks where I felt like everyone was scrambling. And what was also interesting is even when we went to the title company for the closing, it seemed a little bit chaotic. So do you have advice for people who haven't been through that on how to sort of stomach the last two weeks of the purchase process?

Yeah, so having a very good lender might help move that process along faster than expected. But then also some of these-

I don't think my mortgage broker is going to be on this video podcast next. Even though in the back of my mind I was thinking of having him on. He was awesome and my bank was awesome and like I said, it was just really stressful with the amount of information they needed at the end.

So I think that... Just to like kind of go towards that piece too. Some of these things you can't necessarily do 30 days in advance. The bank needs to get a verification of employment and they typically wait till the last couple of days to actually get that verification of employment to keep the process going because they want to make sure that you're holding a job once they issue the clear to close. There's other factors that kind of correlate specific to that too, where things can't be done so far in advance until you know, a week or so before closing to make sure everything is still as stated on the application.

So that that also has something to do with it. So there are a lot of moving parts at the end, coordinating closing. The title company will typically also have multiple closings per day, so it's just important to have your attorneys present and guide you through that process. They're people that have done it before. The attorneys, agents, mortgage bankers or brokers, they do this all the time. So it's just important to have that trust within them to and allow them just to kind of take their role.

What I also found interesting during my experience... And once again I've only done it once, but we got to the title company and the amount of time you're there. And I always joke around the office that every contract is meant to be broken. Or maybe I should phrase it like this. No one really cares about contracts until someone breaches them. And I remember showing up at our closing and I was super anxious to get it done and there were a million different things going on at the time.

We were out of our apartment in the city and we happened to be staying at my dad's place with a dog and Brody and things were super chaotic, and I remember finally showing up at the title company and all I cared about was just show me the numbers and I just want to make sure that the numbers line up and the other a hundred pages of documents I had to review and sign, I just kept saying, "Show me where to sign. Show me where to sign. Like if there's a problem we'll deal with it later." So is that processed at the closing at the title company, is it always... I mean I didn't read much and I think we were there for over an hour.

So typically what I do is I review the key pieces of information, right? So most of the time if you have the mortgage, there's the note and the mortgage and then all the bank documents that kind of go along with that. And that's the bulk of it. And those are the items that I review. But then there's also... They're pretty similar. So what I'm doing when I'm reviewing them is just looking for clauses that might stick out that's not normal in that situation.

And then what I'll do is I'll explain to the buyer, "This is the rate, the loan amount due. This is what the payments are going to look like, this is going to be the final payment and this is when each payment's due." So I just basically go over all the documents with them in that manner.

And then the seller's attorney will typically prepare the deed and any additional documents for me to review as well too. So sometimes if we haven't done that much communication beforehand, changes need to be made and that needs to be completed before the actual closing. So at points, that can get somewhat time-consuming. But for the most part, it's usually the loan package that ends up being the biggest part of the time.

Got it. Is there one piece of advice that you would give to a first time buyer?

Take your time. But at the same time know that we're in a great market right now, so rates are still fairly low. People say that we're topping out at the market right now, but at the same time, if you're ready to buy and you're planning on being there for the next 15 years, it doesn't necessarily matter if we're topping out at the market because we're always going to have those ups and downs with real estate just like any other market.

And if you were giving the same advice to a first time seller, what would be your main piece of advice for them?

If it's part of where you are in your life cycle that you need to sell, you need to sell. So it's pretty much the same advice of I wouldn't necessarily take into consideration the overall market and where things are. You just have to do what's best for you and what's most affordable for you and what's best for your future as well too.

Okay. You've purchased some properties, right? Condo, you've got-

Got a few houses, a two flat and I no longer have my condo, which I still miss dearly.

That's awesome. Congrats though on buying all these properties. What's something you've learned during the whole process, whether it's buying a place, selling a place, living at condo, investment properties.

So the renovation piece of it. It's not as consuming and stressful as I thought it would be. I actually really enjoy it, but some people don't have that same mindset or that same opinion for renovation.

Have you renovated a place you've lived in?

I have. So my current place I renovated and it took 60 days to do the first unit and the second unit and it was pretty straightforward. But of course there's always... Things get kind of thrown in the mix or changes that come up. So finding a good contractor is always very important too.

Okay. That probably goes along the lines where if you didn't think it was that stressful, you are always the one who taught me that change is good.

Change is great.

Change is great.

Let's do a couple of rapid fire questions for you.

Perfect.

What's your favorite animal?

A dog.

A dog. Me too. Same here. If you go, if you go on the website and you see this for myself, I put down a dog, too. You have a dog right now?

I have a dog, my dog Louie.

Louie and Louisa, the rescue.

He's a rescue. Yes. He's a pit lab mix, I want to say. Yeah.

You got him when you were still working here, right?

Right before I started here. So he's about five and a half years old now.

Okay. I think he's been to the office, right?

He has been to the office.

What app do you use most?

On my phone?

Yeah.

Probably my email. I mean for something that's less boring than just my email app.

Let's do something interesting. Do you consider it, do you consider your... I guess it's an app.

What other app would I say I use the most? I like Pinterest. I use Pinterest and YouTube quite a bit. So I would say those two are probably my... Before I go to sleep, that's usually what I'm on.

What do you use Pinterest for?

I look at property rehabs and renovations and you know, kitchen ideas and things like that.

I take it you like HGTV?

I like HGTV, yes.

What's your favorite show on HGTV right now?

What is it called? Good Bones.

Good Bones. I don't know if I watch it.

It's like a mom and daughter and they basically buy houses in Indianapolis and rehab them and then they end up selling them. Sometimes they hold them.

Sounds good. What's your favorite food?

Pizza. I mean it's Chicago.

Very good answer. How about, what would be your ideal vacation?

Well, I went to Europe and that was a pretty good vacation, so I'd love to go back there. I went to Croatia and Paris and that was an excellent vacation. I'd love to go back to Europe. I'd also, I think I would also like to go back to South America and spend some time there.

Cool. How would you finish this sentence? Weekends are for

The first thought was for working, unfortunately.

That's what happens when you own your own law firm. Right?

It is. Weekends are for me to catch up on work. But when I'm not catching up on work, I just enjoy spending time at home, Netflix with family, whatever it is.

Sounds good. And speaking of work, what's the best way for people to get in touch with you?

Best way to get in touch with me is probably by email or by phone. 773-218-5054 is my phone and I can share the email with you and we can put it on the screen.

We'll put it up on the video. So once again, like I said, when you left here and you told me you were going back into the financial world, I was a little heartbroken because I thought that I like failed you. It was like, you were a law clerk here. You were an attorney here and then you're like, "I'm done with law." And I'm thinking to myself, "What did I do wrong?" So anyway-

Nothing.

Good. Good.

Absolutely nothing.

I'm glad though that... When you were working here, I also thought the same thing too. I always thought to myself that that you would always open up your own firm. I knew you had a financial real estate sort of business background and I knew this is something you would totally do. So I'm glad that you, you came full circle and ended up starting your own firm.

I am too. I really am like. Every day it's not even work anymore for me. It's just like what I do now. But one of the biggest things that I just want, like I felt like was calling home was when I was just like... I was trying all these different things for a good two years. And then I was like, "Why am I drifting away from what I actually know?" And so I went back to what I know. I decided to open up my own practice and then it all kind of went from there.

Awesome. Well, thank you for being a guest on episode one season one of our first video podcast.

Yes, thank you. I appreciate it.

Yeah it's been awesome. It's been a ton of fun. And stay tuned for our next video podcast. Thank you.

 

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